Three-phase electric power


#1

We’re going to need three-phase electric power in Tau, in multiple rooms. We will need to make this investment eventually anyway, and since it’s pretty heavy duty qualified electrical work, we will have to hire an electrician to do it. It would be great if we had a certified electrician in our circles do this work, as one of the goals of Blivande is to build a self-sufficient ecosystem where we work with work with each other whenever possible.

So is anyone a certified electrician who could take on this gig, or do you know anyone who could?


#2

I can do it but I´m not allowed to. Though I can do the preparation like pull cables and install sockets, then we could get an electrician who just connects everything. Are we allowed to break through walls ? Maybe we can do do the suction system in the same run and in the same breakthroughs, we might need it in the same places as the 3-phase power right ?
Electricians are a rare and shy species, even difficult to lure out with money. If you find one, let me know. my last good one emigrated to Norway.


#3

Yes, most of them.

We have one guy, but he only has a B certificate, which means that he is not allowed to do new installations. He works for a company though, and through them he is allowed to use their A certificate and do installations, however that means he needs to bill 700 per hour. But if we’ve done most of the work ourselves before, maybe that could work anyway. I’ll ask him if he could come consult us.


#4

Sounds good. How about the vacuum system ?


#5

Lets look at it. Kevin, who could potentially do it on the certificate of his company, is coming by on Wednesday at 18:00. Do have time to join us again then @elch? @hampus and I will be there.


#6

Yeah I think I can manage


#7

I talked to my supervisor today and explained about this project and he said ok, so when you get permission from the landlord you can email your invoice details to peter.baskin@bravida.se
It will cost 550+tax/h = 687.5kr.

Tomorrow evening I will make a shopping list and let you know approx. how much that will cost.


#8

Thank you Kevin!

Hampus, have you had time to check this out?


#9

No, but I’m in touch with Stefan who’s the project manager in charge of ventilation and door installations so I’ll poke him about this tomorrow. We’re meeting very soon in person as well.


#10

Alright. With short notice I went to a house veiwing this evening and signed a contract(Yay!) and my powerbank failed me on the way home so I haven’t made a materiallist. That’s enough excuses for one evening and if it would have been a deadline I would sacrifice sleep but I will do this on thursday instead.


#11

No need to apologize! We’re just grateful for your help.


#12

I had a meeting with some Stockholm Harbour people today and one interesting tidbit of info that came up was the fact that the existing power “canal” that runs alongside the outer walls providing both power and ethernet is actually not a bunch of cables but a 3-phase metal solid rail. I’ve checked the fusebox and it’s running on 20 amps.

I’ve found the website of the producer of this and will contact them. I think it would be very possible to connect a normal 16A socket to this assuming we should buy the insertion component.

How much power would we need? If we can make do with 16A (or maximum 20A running on a 32A socket) we could potentially be saving a lot of money. It’s a shame that it’s such an old installation. In newer buildings they usually run 63A through these canals so we would have been all set had that been the case!

Using this 20A canal for 16A equipment in Tau would mean that we can’t take on other loads while using the 3-phase stuff so we would have to plug all other sockets or make sure to only connect weak stuff like LED lights etc.

This would be very smooth sailing if we just get the component we need from KB System. Since it’s a rail system we just plug in wherever we want along the rail after having removed the plastic cover. So in theory we could have a 16A socket in each room, just remembering to never use it in more than one or a few places at once, depending on the machinery.

For welding outside we would have to come up with another solution. Potentially pulling a long cable out from the basement window or using a generator.

@elch @Kevin


#13

We were considering it but we thought it wouldn’t be enough power


#14

It’s a great idea, but as above said. And for outside welding we talked about having a wallsocket by the door at the studio.

Materiallist Studio Tau
63A 5x16mm2 Cabel 40m = 8540kr
32A 5x6mm2 50m = 4970kr
16A 5x2.5mm2 50 = 2923kr
32A wallsocket x 3 = 464kr
16A wallsocket x 2 = 226kr
32A B Fuse x 3 = 1134kr
16A B Fuse x 2 = 564
Mainswitch = 441kr
Fusebox x36 IP65 = 2006kr
Phaseline fusebox = 826kr
JFB/RCD 63A = 1700kr
Cabelcanal 6m = 1355kr
Plastic pipe 50mm 3m = 96kr
Overall mounting material approx. = 1000kr
In total = 26 245kr + tax and work cost.

This is included 30% discount (Friendly discount) and the cabel lengths are a bit excessive in just to be sure but we can measure more closely later on if this is what you want.
This is a bigger order than we said at first, but this is what @elch wished for when we went around. @elch are you going to check on prices from Germany?


#15

OK, so just one last question before we bury the rail idea: is there any chance that the fuse and cable supplying the rail can be upgraded rather than pulling new cable everywhere? Given that it’s a modular rail system it might be dimensioned for higher amperage than its current 20A. I looked at a cut end section of it yesterday (it was naked so I covered it with tape) and it looks pretty thick. If we could upgrade it to 63A we could have 16A and 32A sockets in every room without much work or money involved beyond the initial fix.


#16

I get some of the stuff much cheaper, prices are rounded, in € and with VAT.

32A wallsocket = 6
16A wallsocket = 5
16A B Fuse = 13
32A B Fuse = 25
Fusebox x36 IP65 = 50
Phaseline fusebox = whats that ?
JFB/RCD 63A = 63

Prices are from pollin.de

the rest they don’t have or is too big for shipping. Shipping is around 15€ and takes usually about a week. We can have a look at the rail again, especially if we put the heavy loads in a container. Maybe we can use the rail for some 16As so the Textiles Workshop gets up and running and we do high power stuff later. We should meet up again for the details.


#17

Hampus, that’s a good idea. If you can see the brand and model of it then you can google the max load. Second question is how we will mount the sockets, that also a thing we could check on the makers website.

Elch, good to hear! Yes the wholesale list prices are high then we get like 70% discount but to customers we take 30% off the ordinary list price, it’s a bit shady but that’s how it usually works.
Sometimes stores like Clas Ohlson, Bauhaus are cheaper.


#18

Sounds good! When can you guys meet again?

Took this photo last week. I can contact the maker KB Systems tomorrow and also investigate whether we have access to power at the container rental grounds (enabling that idea to move forward).


#19

Monday and Tuesday or weekend works best for me this week


#20

I can’t meet tomorrow and I think it’s not really worth meeting until we’ve gotten some answers from KB Systems.