Svengelska – Swenglish: Let's go bilingual?

Jag har funderat lite på det här med språk. Kanske bör vi vara mer öppna för att blanda språken här på forumet, lite som vi gör i huset. Noden har haft engelska som verksamhetsspråk sedan den startade, men jag har märkt i arbetet med Blivande i forumet att det ibland har skapat en del frustration att det upplevs att man måste skriva på engelska. Samtidigt har vi medlemmar som inte pratar svenska, även om jag vet att @elch förstår och att @MariaEuler också lär sig.

Hur skulle det funka att ha ett tvåspråkigt forum det där vore helt okej att svara på det av språken man känner för? En variant skulle ju kunna vara att man t.ex. skriver på engelska när det är superviktigt att alla är med, eller att man får något att översätta det man skrivit. Vi kan ju hjälpas åt med det?

Dessutom är Google Translate nästan orimligt bra nu för tiden. Ofta kan behöver man bara göra väldigt små fixar för att ordna till texten. Ett exempel nedan, som är samma text översatt till engelska där det jag fixat är fetstilat med original i parantes, för att poängtera hur snabbt det går.

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Google translated version with very small fixes:

I’ve been thinking a little about this with language. Maybe we should be more open to mixing the languages here on the forum, a bit like we do in the house. The Node (node) has had English as its organizational (business) language since it started, but I have noticed in the work with Blivande (Becoming) in the forum that it has sometimes created some frustration that it is felt that you have to write in English. At the same time we have members who do not speak Swedish, although I know that @elch understands and that @MariaEuler also learns.

How would it work to have a bilingual forum, where it is (that would be) perfectly okay to answer in the language you feel like using (that of the languages you know)? A variant could be, for example, to write (that writes) in English when it is super important that everyone gets it (is present), or that you get something to translate what you have written. We can help each other out ( ) with that.

In addition, Google Translate is almost unreasonably good nowadays. Often you (can) only need to make very small fixes (to arrange the text). An example below, which is the same text translated into English where what I have fixed is bolded with original in parentheses, to point out how fast it is (goes).

Even without the fixes, that translation is almost perfect and definitely gets the point across.

What do you think @elch, @MariaEuler, @annielocke, @asapienza, @dsandber, @Simon (tagging you because we just talked about this). Would a bilingual forum work as well?

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Hm i’m conflicted. For me I could read what you wrote @hugi so it doesn’t bother me, but it would take me about 10x as long to respond in swedish that didnt sound like a 4 year old wrote it. I assume it is the same for others who are non-native english speakers, so the problem is the same but for different people. I personally dont expect someone to take the 10x as long writing in another language just for me, in the same way I hope I can do that myself and be accepted. I suppose it boils down to a comparison between what is the “goal” of what kind of longer-term discussion/“archive of intention/activities” the blivande forum wants to attract (i.e. what are the stats on new/non-native speakers joining community vs inconvenienced swedes), how much it is like Talk/general burner community speaking english all the time vs. the current practicalities/frustrations encountered in the day to day right now. Shame we cant just throw in that handy dandy fbook “translate all comments” function :stuck_out_tongue:

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This is indeed also the case for some Swedish speakers. But what I’m proposing is that, like you did now, you would simply answer in the language you felt like responding in. Our assumption would be that everyone can understand either language (sometimes with the help of good old Google translate), but that the language you answer in is up to you.

Hej… Denna tråd beror till stor del på mig men är även baserad på att jag har pratat runt lite med kollegor på huset. I mitt fall handlar det till stor del om min dyselexi. Bara att skriva ett meddelande som detta (på svenska) har vid denna 6 rad nu tagit ca 9 minuter… Jag skriver några rader, läser igenom dessa, fattar ingenting av mina egna ord och börjar om…
Att skriva samma sak på engelska tar ännu längre varav jag istället struntar i att skriva alls…
Mitt förslag är att vi kör detta organiskt. Dvs jag skriver på Engelska när jag tror att det är av intresse för alla i huset och på svenska när det är mer riktat till TAU tex… gällande google translate så går det ju även utmärkt (21minuter) att översätta från svenska till engelska oxå.
Vi kan kanske komma överens om att vi alla skriver rubrikerna på engelska så att våra engelsk talande vänner får en idé om vad tråden handlar om?

(Google translate)
Hi … This thread largely depends on me but is also based on that I have talked around a bit with colleagues at the house. In my case, it is largely my dyslexia. Just writing a message like this (in Swedish) at this 6 line has now taken about 9 minutes … I write a few lines, read through these, take nothing of my own words and start over …
Writing the same thing in English takes even longer, which is why I ignore writing at all …
My suggestion is that we run this organically. That is, I write in English when I think it is of interest to everyone in the house and in Swedish when it is more directed to TAU, for example.
Maybe we can agree that we all write the headlines in English so that our English speaking friends have an idea of ​​what the thread is about?

This inlägg took me about half an hour to write, translate and post… Some of us are organisers and some of us are not…
For me digital platforms are really complicated… But at samma tid as it takes for me to write a inlägg like this I could build a cosy hangout over the royal stage in the middle room for all of us to enjoy…
And then maybe we could cuddle up there together and talk face to face about ideas and questions?

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This is a good idea.

This is very, very good data. Thank you for measuring out the time like that, it’s super useful. We need to be aware that we are not equally equipped. Anyone who has ever seen me try to organize materials in my own non-digital projects knows my shortcomings. Actually, anyone who has ever watched me take 40 minutes to pick up 10 things at a grocery store knows how badly my brain deals with the physical world. :slight_smile:

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Given that we’re in Sweden it doesn’t seem too crazy for people to be writing in Swedish :slight_smile:

Google Translate is generally fine, as Hugi said. If the subjects could be in English that would definitely help in terms of knowing what to bother Google translating.

Honestly I feel like all the English is a gift that is unfair to expect. Incidentally, I AM learning Swedish too, it’s just a very very very long road.

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couldn’t we implement google translate like on facebook ?
with the option “translate this post”

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@matthias, did we look into implementing this on Edgeryders, can’t remember?

Would seem to be exceedingly valuable for a forum like ER given how many different languages it spans. I foresee a great hackathon housed at Blivande if it doesn’t already exist elsewhere. :slight_smile:

But there there really should be other places that have this already given the size of Discourse?

We did. The way we wanted to integrate it (translate on demand but cached) already exists as a plugin: Discourse Translator. A button to translate it would appear in the actions menu below a post.

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Finally I can share my thoughts in my native tongue, Klingon. Ghos!

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